When I reach MadMan on the 12th floor of a Milanese building, where it costs him a certain effort to stay as he suffers from vertigo, he is talking with his team about the desire to escape Milan, after more than ten years, to buy a house in the South and see the sea again. “Terrone in Milan, I have the stigma / I see that you suck and you're a mess, for me it's an enigma”, he raps in Level Upfourth track of MM Vol. 5the mixtape that continues the saga that began in 2013 with MM1 and which, in almost 15 years, has become one of the permanent fixtures of Italian rap. A place where it is always nice to return, for the artist and for those who listen to him, like a fixed appointment at the bar where you find yourself without having to agree with 100 messages in a group chat. Of course, over many years the fear of no longer recognizing each other, sitting with their backs turned between the tables, easily takes over, with changing fashions and tastes, but MM5 still represents MadMan's clear vision on rap.
Published at the end of April, MM5 it wasn't touted as a turning point for the rapper, but truth be told, it is. For MadMan, who plays with the idea that this could be his last mixtape, the time has come to deal with the future, for which he has many ideas. Open your own label? Give yourself up to producing beats? Be a comedian? In reality he doesn't discard any of them. Because easy things bore him, he tells me at least a couple of times during the interview. And you can feel it in MM5with a choice of beats and featuring – there is the inseparable Gemitaiz, Nitro, then again Fibra, Nayt, Johnny Marsiglia and Toni Zeno, to name a few – not aligned with the trends of the recording market. He also tells me this with a metaphor (more or less) of style: «If you want to dress at Zara because you want to be fashionable, go, but know that there will be a thousand other people like you».
MadMan didn't want to follow trends, but he doesn't have a hypocritical approach to success, he carefully cultivates the balance between his craziest part and his deepest part, between a nihilistic sensation and the passion for new discoveries, in life and in music. Above all, cultivate curiosity about what your next steps will be. We talked about it together.
“Volume 5bro is the last”, seriously?
When I actually wrote the intro, I meant it. At that moment I was very frustrated, I wanted to do something super pissed off, get some things out. So I left it like that and then I decided to compensate with the bar in the outro where I say to myself but from what pulpit, to leave a bit of doubt. It's just that I am, I alternate phases of complete nihilism and defeatism with others of extreme stimulation and motivation. In fact, after I wrote the intro, that strong stimulus took over, because the mixtape came out well.
What was the frustration you're talking about due to?
The ambivalence between it's the last and it's not the last also arises from the fact that, at this moment in my career, this is the last album I have under contract with Tanta Roba Label and, consequently, also with Universal. So I am facing a period in which I have to decide my future, even at work. As my personality is, there are certain dynamics of the music market that I don't like, but that's how it is. In the sense, it is a game with declared rules and if you want to play you have to stay with it. Me, perhaps due to my age (37 years old, ed), however long I've been playing it, I don't feel like it anymore, I want to play another game. Let's see what the future holds for me.
In the outro There is no sun today you say that people will choose him as the best piece, but you don't seem entirely happy with this judgment. Or am I wrong?
For me too, as a fan, the songs that remain most impressed are those that manage to touch me deeply, but they are not the songs that I then listen to again and again. It's also a criticism of myself too, because I'm like that too. But it's to say: guys, I know that these pieces remain longer, but they remain longer also because they are exceptions. It's not like you can make a record just like that, we'll shoot ourselves. And I ask the public to understand this choice. Because from Lonewolf many took the three, four songs in this style and said to me: «But why don't you do them all like this?». Because the ending of the movie is the thing that makes you cry, but it can't make you cry the whole movie. It would lose its value.
Fifteen years ago you and Gemitaiz gave mixtapes to the public, and this made a difference, but today what distinguishes the value of a mixtape from that of an album?
Today they are practically the same thing. I can tell you that as an approach I feel much freer when I make a mixtape, in the sense that I free myself a little from the chains of having to necessarily find a particular narrative or a concept that binds all the tracks, an extremely precise sound. I feel more comfortable experimenting, doing features that I wouldn't do, rather than taking a beat that I wouldn't usually take. For the rest, a mixtape today is treated exactly like a record. If I want to come out once every two years with a quality project I can't afford to give away 15-20 songs. There is no longer the same market as before, in which this thing worked. Today I would have endless copyright problems, I couldn't be on any platform, and I would consciously know I was doing something counterproductive.
Let's stay in the nostalgia dimension: MM5 was released by Tanta Roba, the label you started with and where you have remained until now. Actually, today it's just you and Gem left. Can't the team that wins change?
We have had a journey from 2012 until now, in my opinion with ups and downs, like all relationships. However, I am grateful to the label for giving me total artistic freedom over all these years, but I am very stimulated by the possibilities of the future, honestly. I'm a person who lights up with hardship, and thinking about a time when I won't be protected by a contract has just that effect. I would like to enter a more independent dimension, so that everything is based on my work, that I am encouraged to work harder and better.
So with your own label, maybe?
Yes, why not? We see. These are all things I'm studying now.
From Tanta Roba came names that later exploded into the mainstream, such as Salmo or Fedez. Then there's you, Ensi (with Nero and Mattaman in Heavyweights), that you belong to that circle of rappers for rap enthusiasts, far from hybridization with pop. Would you have preferred to play for the other club?
I think I'm a wild card, because I've also had my mainstream moments, with songs that have exploded, like Center with Coez or with Back Homewhich had gone platinum. I had a nice parable, which reached some mainstream points: I went to X FactorI did the Wind Music Awardsetc. etc. At the moment I think I'm more attracted to being original, creating my own path. I don't live the rap competition, I don't care about anything at all. The priority is to do something that satisfies me, then if no one likes it I'll go back to digging the land like my grandparents and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. I play my game at my own pace. I can't keep up with the rhythms and demands of today's music. I evaluate the opportunity when it presents itself, I sincerely try to understand everything in the most objective way possible…
Like being the judge of X Factor?
But… the judge didn't… But, oh God! (He laughs) Let's say I don't even have prejudices. I still feel open to the new, for example, with MM5 I discovered that I can produce beats, so maybe at some point I can discover that I'm a born stand-up comedian, what do I know. There are no limits. For me the main ambition has always been to rap better than others and, without false modesty, I think I have succeeded. Then surely there are many people who have made more money than me, but I don't think there is anyone who knows how to rap better than me. I don't even want to be hypocritical, I don't mind money, but I'm more motivated by trying to rap better than someone, rather than trying to make more money.
As you were saying, an absolute novelty in MM5 it's your production, with the beat of Clive Owenwhich you did. What discovery was it?
For a while I had been saying to Gemitaiz: “Come on, when you come to Milan show me the basics.” Because I obviously have the theory to make a beat, it's the practice that I lack. So he gave me these two, three hours of tutorials, we sat in my studio to smoke, have a drink, and he showed me a little how to cut samples, how to time things and everything. From there I got hooked, like all the things that interest me and so I no longer sleep at night. So I've reached a level where if I don't like something I recorded today, I can try to make another beat and see how it goes.
Speaking of new features, there is the featuring with Toni Zeno who is perhaps the most emerging of the mixtape's guests. How did you encounter his music?
He's a new kid, but he's not twenty and I think you can tell from the stuff he writes that he's very, very, mature. I heard it by chance from a good friend of mine, Lucci, who is a big fan of underground rap, but is also a mega-critic. So, being curious, I went to listen to it and the more I listened to it, the more I liked it. I went to look at the aesthetics on Instagram and everything, who he was working with, including Aleaka and Fid Mella, two producers who I respect a lot. At that point I wrote to him. He was very happy, well received, a golden boy, very polite, old fashioned, truly. He sent me five, six things and we closed two, I'll give you this scoop.
Is your rap still a way to go against the grain?
I think rap today is the most mainstream thing that can exist. For a kid to want to become a rapper was like in my time wanting to become a footballer or a tronista. I believe that the distance from this way of seeing music can be perceived MM5already from the choice of featuring and beats. It's nothing mainstream or winking at anything, on the contrary. Those who criticize me will say that this stuff isn't the latest fashion, but it's a conscious choice, there's already a lot of latest fashion stuff.
The last question is semi-serious, but I couldn't leave this room without asking it. I think about Every Day with Gemitaiz and I ask myself: after almost 15 years how do you still find new ideas to make songs about reeds?
It's been a long time since we did a piece on reeds. And this time I was the one who pushed, because Gem wasn't so keen. But for me it was like in Lonewolfwhere we did the love song because we hadn't done one in a while and, in the end, it was the most streamed. For this album I told him it had been a long time since we had done a song We Instagrama bit ganja-friendly, so we wrote down the verses, I started the beat and then Flavietto finished it. That's how it went.
