By dint of evoking them as a bogeyman, even the “communists” have awakened from hibernation. If not politically, at least culturally. It is a simplification that recalls another, of course, but which gives an idea of the times we are living in. While Italy is led by the centre-right (for some by the right-right), expressions such as “social revolt” (see Landini), “red ticks” (as Salvini defined the kids from the social centers), and even “the ideas that flow in the mind” of a now retired singer-songwriter – by his firm will – like Francesco Guccini trigger public reflections.
At 84 years old, he told us from Pavana that after the controversy over his stance against the government he received no reaction. Also because “I'm not on social media”. And so, in reality, he is experiencing these days with more curiosity for the return to the cinema in a restored version, from 5 to 8 December, of the film Between Via Emilia and the West on the concert he held in Piazza Maggiore in Bologna on 21 June 1984 in a mixture of “fear, surprise and satisfaction”.
With Guccini we talked about that crowd that blocked a city, the reasons why today “songs have been forgotten in the street”, the secret of Emilian creativity (perhaps Vasco was right), the No Meloni Day on November 15th which he would participate if he were a few years younger: “I feel close to the students who demonstrate.”
What effect does seeing the film of that historic concert at the cinema have on you 40 years later?
For me it's a nice memory that comes back. A fantastic evening in Piazza Maggiore in Bologna between fear, surprise and satisfaction for the success of the public. Much of the concert cannot be seen, because it has never been found. He disappeared. In those hours there was great tension.
In the concert you begin with these words: «I told the organizers that I accepted out of desperation, but that I would curse them until the end of this show».
(He laughs) I've always been afraid of playing in public, let alone in Piazza Maggiore and with all those people in front of me. The concerts made me anxious about what could have happened. After the first phases, however, I calmed down and everything was fine. But that time, in particular, when I looked out before going on stage I was astonished because I had never seen 160 thousand people all together in that square. The whole center of Bologna was blocked and no one expected it.
Between Via Emilia and the West it is also partly the story of the American myth that influenced Italy. But already in 1976 Giorgio Gaber, in one of his famous monologues, said: “Culture has never affected Americans.”
Eh, in reality that pop culture has influenced our culture, starting from the post-war period. Cinema, literature, fashion, it was all pro-American. But perhaps they never had a great culture, in fact Gaber's was a joke that hid a truth.
Given the latest elections in America that brought Trump back to the White House…
What little culture they had seems tragically cast aside.
Returning to the concert film, before interpreting Auschwitzperformed in the film by Equipe 84, you explained that at the beginning, when people heard it, they made spells.
When engraved Auschwitz for my first LP, the engineer, who was then dressed in a white coat and looked like a doctor, said to me: «Did you write this song?». I said yes and he told me: “If you want to continue doing this job, change your gender.” The other sound engineers weren't exactly thrilled either. Instead it was a choice… but not even much of a choice, because I didn't have a choice between those songs or others. Either I did those or goodnight. But writing a song about concentration camps, in that period, was not entirely usual. Before there were only love or happy songs. Choosing that theme represented a big change in perspective.
Today, however, we have returned to that type of “happy” songs, that is, disengaged from the great human and social themes.
Unfortunately it's true. There isn't that kind of song anymore. You were talking about Gaber before, but there were so many others who were part of that truly exceptional period through the songs of songwriters. I don't listen to music anymore, but I don't think there are songs out there that are worth listening to.
Reviewing the quantity and quality of the songwriters and musicians who have characterized Emilia, a big question remains: how was it that they were all born there?
Over the years I have heard many explanations. I have always believed that it was due to the peasant culture, which at the time was still very lively in Emilia. This produced many people who knew how to play and in the evening they found themselves, after work or at parties, playing together. The practice of music was widespread, even by non-professionals. And for me it has always been that peasant culture that has produced the wave of musicians and singers.
Vasco Rossi on TV from Serena Dandini said that there was only one secret: “The pussy…”.
(He bursts into thunderous laughter). I don't know if that's the reason, but if that's the case, it would be worth keeping secret.
Continuing with the concert lineup of Between Via Emilia and the Westwe arrive at God is deadplayed by the Nomads, which as you remember was highly censored.
They were different times. If you think that at the beginning the Beatles were also censored, described as “a quartet of tone-deaf people”… The music masters who evaluated the new artists were not very attentive to the quality, much more to the moral of the songs. Now we hear everything.
In conjunction with the film, the double live album of the same name already published in 1984 will also be republished. After Intorto songs And Tavern songsit looks like we'll see you again in the rankings among the best-selling albums. But how do you explain that the world has changed so much, yet people still appreciate your songs?
Maybe the credit goes to the songs themselves. As we said before, there is a lack of songs that say important things to people, or at least try to. Those who say something are still appreciated for this reason. Today they forgot the songs on the street…
In the meantime your latest book has also been released, That's how we werefive stories that explain adolescence in the 1950s among Indians and cowboys, right between the Via Emilia and the West.
We kids back then played Indians and cowboys on the street. The street where I was born in Modena, back then people were born at home, on one side it ended in the Via Emilia where there was a lot of traffic going from Rimini to Piacenza. On the other side the same road ended in the countryside. This is why the expression was born Between Via Emilia and the West. On the one hand there was dream, play and fantasy in the countryside, on the other the American myth and progress.
The strongest reaction to Giorgia Meloni's government also seems to come from Emilia. Al Daily fact you declared: «Vasco is right, it's a regime». And a lot of controversy broke out. What did you get in your Pavana?
But you know, I don't frequent social media and therefore I haven't received any controversy.
We've been talking about it for days, even on TV and in the newspapers. Haven't you changed your mind?
No, absolutely. I don't think Vasco has recanted either.
Your friend Roberto Vecchioni said of you: «I have always been a communist, he a socialist. I'm not convinced that Meloni's regime is a regime. Of course the air of fascism is there. Which is not just violence, but also thought.”
I wouldn't even distinguish between communist and socialist anymore, we are certainly two who have always been on the left. However, you know, nowadays we are all defined by Matteo Salvini as communists, without distinction, as he said in reference to the events in Bologna. Now they've put all of us together in the communist boiler room. What I have said are simply the ideas that run through my mind today, which are not very happy days.
Piazza Maggiore during the Guccini concert. Press photo
On November 15th in Bologna students organized the national strike called No Meloni Day. Would you like to participate?
If I were a few years younger I would participate, but at 84 I don't go out on the streets anymore. I live in this mountain village so I don't go to the city. Too many people and too much traffic. But, certainly, I feel close to the students who will demonstrate on Friday.
The secretary of the CGIL, Maurizio Landini, announced the need for a “social revolution”. Do you agree?
Yes, but it was very misinterpreted. He didn't mean building barricades when he spoke of social revolt. It means that a radical change is necessary. Not the revolution.
And do you feel like giving some advice to Elly Schlein, secretary of the PD?
Giving advice is always difficult. Elly Schlein, all things considered, does her job well. I would tell her to continue like this, with a little more determination, I also think she is doing the right things.
Throughout Europe, however, anti-Semitism seems to have returned. As far as you can remember, have you ever experienced a similar situation?
That I have experienced, since I was a boy, I do not remember any anti-Semitism being practiced. There wasn't this feeling. Now he seems to have returned because of the war in Palestine. The mistake, however, is in that war. Thus anti-Semitism has resurfaced due to dissent towards the behavior of a certain Israeli government. A tragic error at its core, because one cannot be anti-Semitic, anti-people of color or anti-Roma. If we talk about races it is always wrong, they don't exist. But you can be against Netanyahu's government and how it acts.
Meanwhile, the new cultural hegemony in Italy does not seem to have produced, so far, significant right-wing singer-songwriters. Is it a cultural problem or is it just a matter of time?
Someone was there, even if I never met him. Of course, there aren't many. Now they are trying to bring out right-wing culture, but demonstrate it, bring it out. The song is not a great example of culture, there are much higher ones, but it is a symbol of what is on the left and what is on the right. In fact, there are no interesting songs from a right-wing cultural point of view. It's a demonstration that speaks for itself.
To close with the same song that also closes the concert film, think about whether today a right-wing singer-songwriter were to rewrite The locomotive he could call her The bulldozer or The flame?
(He bursts out laughing) They don't need it! Some of my songs, think for yourself, have been appreciated by the right. Giorgia Meloni loved her very much Cyrano. He had also invited me to Atreju (the youth political demonstration of the Italian right, ed), but obviously I didn't go. And I heard that Roberto Vannacci quoted the first verse of the Locomotive. So on the right they know my songs well, although they are often careful not to sing them in public. If they sing instead The locomotive they modify it to their needs, like everything.
